MARISE PAYNE
Minister for Foreign Affairs
Minister for Women
TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH STEPHEN CENATIEMPO, 2CC BREAKFAST
15 JANUARY 2021
Subjects: Australia-China Relationship, WHO investigation team in Wuhan, Australia’s support for the rollout of COVID-19 vaccines in the Pacific, Australia-US relationship
Stephen Cenatiempo:
Well, one of the main casualties of the COVID-19 pandemic has been our relationship with our biggest trading partner, China. And the person charged with, I guess, trying to repair this is the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Marise Payne, and she joins us now. Senator, good morning.
Marise Payne:
Good morning, Stephen.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
This is obviously a massive issue. Our relationship with China appears, on the face of it, to be deteriorating. You’ve been pretty quiet on this. What’s happening behind the scenes to try and repair the relationship?
Marise Payne:
Stephen, I think it’s very important to acknowledge as the starting point in any discussion on these issues, the importance of the Australia-China relationship, and important not just to Australia, but to China as well. We have consistently welcomed China’s rise as a major economic partner. It’s been very important for our own economy and for the global economy and for the Indo-Pacific region. But I think we also acknowledge that with economic rise comes both economic and broader strategic responsibility for a country like China. Where we start, always, no matter the bilateral relationship we are talking about, is based on a focus on our national interests and the importance of our values to those interests, protecting them and protecting our national security. So we will work very hard on our relationship with China. We continue to do that, but we’ll never trade our interests or our values, and I don’t think the Australian people would want us or expect us to do that.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
Look, I don’t think anybody would dispute that, but I guess at some point it becomes a point of cutting your nose to spite your face. Where is that balance?
Marise Payne:
Well, I’m not quite sure what the expectation would be about how you draw a line when your focus is national interests, and national security for that matter. So we’ve seen a number of issues raised in the last few years in relation to decisions that Australia has taken to protect our own position, to protect our own national security. And if you ask yourself, rhetorically or literally, which one of those decisions Australia should not have taken, which one of those steps Australia should not have made, whether it is in relation to countering foreign interference, whether it’s in relation to the protection, the establishment of our 5G system, whatever it might be, I think the answer is we would always have taken those steps and we will continue to do so.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
Some would suggest that Australia, taking the lead on insisting that there was an investigation into the origins of the COVID-19 virus was the catalyst for, I guess, the further degradation of our relations with China. Now a team of experts from the World Health Organization has arrived in Wuhan to begin that investigation. Are we really expecting that anything is going to come out of this investigation?
Marise Payne:
Well, the first thing I would say is that Australia’s consistent position in seeking transparency in relation to the origins of and responses to the coronavirus is shared by a very large number of countries around the world, as evidenced by the support for the World Health Assembly resolution on an independent and transparent inquiry. I’m very pleased to see the arrival of the international expert team in China this week, and I hope and expect that that team, with the support of the World Health Organization and Chinese authorities on this visit will have access to what they need in terms of data and information and key locations which are relevant to those studies. There is an Australian expert who is participating on the expert team. But what is overwhelming in terms of the focus of the team is this independence and transparency. We will watch carefully how that transpires and work closely with our international counterparts, as you would expect us to do, including in Geneva with the WHO, but also as part of the international inquiry. We have Helen Clark, well-known to Australia as one of the co-chairs of the inquiry. I’ve spoken to the former Prime Minister of New Zealand on the inquiry process, I’ve spoken with the Director-General of the WHO on more than one occasion and as recently as December as well. So we are very, very strongly supporting the inquiry process. We want to know the origins and the causes of the pandemic and how we can better prevent future pandemics.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
You mentioned the trade off between national interest and that is the issue here with our relationship with China. Obviously, trade is in the national interest and that’s where we’re seeing most of the damage being done. I just want to touch on Australia raising concerns about the arrest of pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong – quite rightly so. But the expectation is that that’s going to worsen relationships. We’re now hearing from China that they’re suggesting our cherries are inferior and they’re not going to take those anymore. They’re now just taking the proverbial. Is there any real chance that we can repair this relationship given that, I mean, they’re not even coming up with real excuses anymore.
Marise Payne:
Well, Stephen, we work consistently on the relationship with our counterparts here in Canberra and in Beijing. So, the focus is very much on Australia and China working together constructively. All ministers and leaders in Australia are very open to engagements with their Chinese counterparts and have consistently been so. But where there are issues of concern and Hong Kong is a good example, Australia has consistently made observations in relation to those.
The joint statement that we released with counterparts from Canada, from the United Kingdom, from the United States underscores the breadth of serious concern at the mass arrests recently shared, for example, also by the European Union, who’ve issued their own statements in response to these shocking developments.
Now, Hong Kong is a very important place for Australia. It’s a very important place for our largest diaspora, which is based in Hong Kong. We know the Sino-British joint declaration, the “One Country, Two Systems” framework, are international agreements and the obligations under those, have been clear. So, where there are concerns, we have raised those.
But importantly, we should be able to have those conversations and to work together. So, trade is an important aspect of that. Where we have seen inappropriate steps taken by China – and I think barley is an example of this – then we are able to use the formal mechanisms under the World Trade Organization to endeavour to resolve the disagreement on barley before that matter has to go to adjudication before a panel. So, we’re working within the system and we’re making clear our position and we are very open to discussing that.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
Now, I just wonder if they’re working within the system themselves. Now, moving away from China for a moment, Australia’s working to support the rollout of COVID vaccine to the wider Pacific region. Why is that a priority?
Marise Payne:
Well, it’s an absolute priority for our region, for the health and the strength and the COVID-19 recovery in our region. We’ve committed to a full population vaccine in the Pacific. We’re working closely with partners like New Zealand, like France and the United States to achieve that. And this is part of Australia’s strong partnerships across the region.
I’ve had the opportunity in recent times to speak with a number of leaders, including Fijian Prime Minister Bainimarama yesterday, who was in northern Fiji with the women and men of HMASAdelaide who are supporting the recovery from Tropical Cyclone Yasa.
On doing this, one thing that we know the vaccine will assist us with – and it is very, very important in our region – is the ability to open up and to pursue economic recovery. And so, we want to make sure that we are supporting that as a strong partner in the Pacific and also in Southeast Asia, and making sure that the systems and the procedures and importantly a vaccine, which is approved through all of the appropriate, stringent regulatory requirements, is able to be provided in partnership with our colleagues in the Pacific.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
While all this is going on, Senator, of course, we now have to deal with the changing of the administration in the United States. There’s been a lot of criticism thrown, particularly at the Prime Minister for the Coalition Government, about its closeness to the Trump administration. How does Australia now maintain the American relationship with Biden and Harris coming in?
Marise Payne:
Well, I think the criticism is absolutely unfounded. Our approach, and as has always been the case through countless Australian governments and countless US administrations, is to work with our vitally important friends and allies in the United States. And we know that we will be more than able to work with the new Biden administration this year and onwards to continue to deepen that very close relationship and the Alliance between our nations. And in fact, that’s never been more important. The strategic challenges, the upholding of the rules-based global order, addressing COVID-19, pursuing that strong economic recovery in the Indo-Pacific, represents some of those key focuses. But we know well, many of the people who will take up roles in the Biden administration in the coming weeks – indeed, as the inauguration occurs next week – many of them are long-term friends of Australia. Many of them I personally have known for some time, and I look forward to continuing that very constructive relationship and, of course, working with the Biden administration on their priorities and their focuses as well. But I know that many of those are shared.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
Marise Payne, thank you very much for your time this morning.
Marise Payne:
Thank you very much, Stephen. And best wishes to all of your listeners for a happy, healthy and much better 2021.
Stephen Cenatiempo:
Indeed. Same to you. Senator Marise Payne, the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
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