Transcript: Keogh on veterans affairs, jobs and skills summit

THE HON MATT KEOGH MP MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL  RADIO INTERVIEW 6PR MORNINGS WITH LIAM BARTLETT THURSDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2022 SUBJECTS: Jobs and Skills Summit, Energy Sources and Worker Shortages LIAM BARTLETT: And a very good morning. In the flesh, the Minister for Veterans Affairs and Federal Member for Burt, Matt Keogh, how are you, Matt? MATT KEOGH: I’m well, Liam, good morning, and good morning to Andrew who’s with us as well. LIAM BARTLETT: Andrew Hastie, can’t believe it. He’s alive and well. The rumours of your demise are exaggerated, Andrew. Shadow Minister for Defence and Federal Member for Canning, good morning. ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning, Liam, and Matt. It’s great to be back and to be on the show with you. LIAM BARTLETT: And fit and healthy? ANDREW HASTIE: Yes, we’re at the back end of flu. It was a rough time. Far worse than COVID, incidentally. LIAM BARTLETT: Flu has been bad, hasn’t it? ANDREW HASTIE: Flu has been terrible. LIAM BARTLETT: Especially when you’ve got kids and they bring it home. ANDREW HASTIE: That’s right. LIAM BARTLETT: It’s hard to get past, isn’t it? ANDREW HASTIE: It is. MATT KEOGH: It inflicts us all as parents, the beauty of children bringing things home. LIAM BARTLETT: Yes, worse than annoying constituents, Matt? MATT KEOGH: Look, I think being a parent is great training for engaging with people on any level about any topic at any time even if you actually know nothing about it, because kids will ask you the questions you never thought you wanted to have asked. LIAM BARTLETT: Very well put. Very well put. We’ll leave it there at the risk of diving down that rabbit hole. We are going to update our audience a little bit later this morning because of the time difference, obviously the job summit has kicked off today in Canberra. You’re not there, Matt. You’re either very lucky or very unlucky, depending on your point of view. But how do you think it will go? MATT KEOGH: You’re right, I’m not there, but like many, many of my colleagues I’ve been engaged in holding some of the lead-up round tables, engaging people in my area around veterans’ employment, held a round table on the east coast and one over here in Perth at the beginning of the week. I think this is a really important moment in terms of the Jobs and Skills Summit bringing together unions, business, non-government, government together to look at really important issues affecting us in terms of skills shortage. How do we grow the economy, what changes do we need to our industrial relations system to make it work in everyone’s best interests? LIAM BARTLETT: Are they the right people? MATT KEOGH: It’s just the beginning as well. LIAM BARTLETT: Are they the right people? The invite list, what, 143 people, seven from Western Australia. I would have thought given that we’ve been the engine room of the economy, I thought that was a pretty poor representation. ANDREW HASTIE: And also, Liam, 33 from the unions, so it’s a bit of a union love fest, I think, but moreover, there’s another absence and that’s from Defence Industry. We’re trying to rebuild Defence Industry; the Coalition Government invested a lot of money in that. I know Labor has plans to do the same. Does anyone from Defence Industry get an invite to the jobs summit? No, they don’t. They do not. LIAM BARTLETT: The other one – ANDREW HASTIE: That’s a critical oversight, I think. LIAM BARTLETT: The other one that’s not there is your leader, Peter Dutton. MATT KEOGH: He opted out. LIAM BARTLETT: Where is he? MATT KEOGH: Well, he was invited and decided he didn’t want to go. He threw his toys out of the bath and instead is sniping from the outside. LIAM BARTLETT: Surely you should go, Andrew, you should go. ANDREW HASTIE: No, look, I think he got his invite through the media so it was a bit of a stunt from the outset, and I think in the end what we need to ask is will this improve productivity? Will this lead to wage increases? Will this lead to downward pressure on interest rates, downward pressure on energy prices and that is what this jobs summit will be judged by? That’s the criteria that we’re going to judge the success of this jobs summit by. LIAM BARTLETT: By whether – by that time, I mean how long are you going to give it? ANDREW HASTIE: Let’s see. They’ve had 100 days. Anthony Albanese, 97 times from January said that he would take $270 off people’s power bills. He’s not said anything since becoming the Prime Minister and I know people; their power bills are going up. So, these are the sorts of things that we’re going to hold Labor to account whilst in Government. LIAM BARTLETT: $275, actually. ANDREW HASTIE: $275, I beg your pardon. MATT KEOGH: Not really what the Jobs and Skills Summit is about, and I think to look at some of Andrew’s numbers, there are more business people there than there are union people there. But the key thing here is we’ve just gone through nine years of government where under the Liberal Coalition, you didn’t invite the people that represent workers to the table, you only ever spoke to business. We want to talk to both, and non-government, we want to get that wage growth, we want to address skills, improve productivity. LIAM BARTLETT: That’s your whole consensus sort of ideology. MATT KEOGH: Absolutely. It’s about bringing people together and this is the start of a process that will come out of this, to deliver on those sorts of things that Andrew is calling for, to make sure that we do get that wage growth, that we do develop our economy, that we meet the skills crisis that we are currently confronting in the short term but also build for the long term as well. LIAM BARTLETT: 133 882, if you’d like to ask Matt Keogh or Andrew Hastie a question. I haven’t seen, I haven’t been monitoring, obviously, because we’ve been on air but was the Shaq there, did he give a speech? ANDREW HASTIE: I must say there is an absence of celebrity here, which is quite surprising given the Prime Minister is quite drawn to people like Fat Man Scoop who he spoke to on Vietnam Veterans Day without acknowledging Vietnam veterans. LIAM BARTLETT: Fat Man Scoop, I mean, big name. ANDREW HASTIE: Big name, and then Shaquille O’Neill. I mean, who’s next? Matthew McConaughey to spruik stage 3 tax cuts. I know the ladies would love it but he’s got about as much relevance as Shaq does to our national conversation. LIAM BARTLETT: Not a bad idea. The reason I ask that is because the last time we had a summit it was full of celebrity. You remember Cate Blanchett, for example. MATT KEOGH: This is a bit of a different approach. It’s targeted around some very specific issues that we need to take forward and it’s a serious event and I think you’ve both now acknowledged how serious an event it is, given the nature of the people that have been invited. Unfortunately, the Opposition decided to opt out. Even the National Party leader has decided to go along. He sees the benefit of it but Peter Dutton, apparently, doesn’t want to participate with other people in our country to try and develop a good way forward in growing our economy, improving wages, building that efficiency, collaboration between workers and business. LIAM BARTLETT: Let’s go to the phones, Robbie’s on the line. Hello, Robbie. ROBBIE: Good morning, Liam, Matt, Andrew. I’ve got a couple of points. First of all, Matt, I’m still looking for my $275 this year, next year, and the year after that. I don’t believe the argument that the Liberals had kept something concealed from you guys. I mean if you look at what’s happening in Europe, you could see that coming a mile away. The next question, and the point I’d like to make is about nuclear energy option. Now, Bowen says that this is the most expensive form of energy. Can I see the modelling? And, Andrew, why isn’t the Opposition asking for that so that we have a real debate about what’s really going to cost us? LIAM BARTLETT: Good question. Very good question. You go. MATT KEOGH: Robbie, thank you for raising those two issues. So, the first thing in terms of yes, the previous government actually changed regulation to keep secret, not publicly release, an agreed increase to energy prices on the east coast. They deliberately did that. When it comes to nuclear and the modelling, there was actually a parliamentary inquiry during the last term, or it might have been the term before that, looking at some of these issues and it is the most expensive form of energy because of the huge capital, upfront capital cost that goes into it, plus the ongoing safety compliance during operation and after. LIAM BARTLETT: Is that still the same now, Matt? With this latest company – MATT KEOGH: It’s relatively even more expensive. LIAM BARTLETT: But these new SMRs, what they call SMRs, these small modular reactors – MATT KEOGH: What you’re comparing it against now as well. Other forms of energy are becoming cheaper, so even if nuclear is becoming cheaper, the other forms of energy are getting even more cheaper. LIAM BARTLETT: But are they as reliable? ANDREW HASTIE: No, they’re not and that’s the point. Wind and solar is great if the wind is blowing and the sun is shining. MATT KEOGH: And that’s why storage technology is also part of that. ANDREW HASTIE: They can’t generate reliable base load power, which is why we still need coal, we still need gas, and the Liberal Opposition has committed to looking at nuclear. I’m for nuclear. I have no trouble in saying that. I think we need to move to nuclear. Yes, it’s expensive upfront but if we care about reducing emissions, but if we also care about retaining manufacturing in this country, power prices low, then nuclear is the way forward long term. Now Labor can’t commit to this because it’s part of their policy platform to oppose nuclear power. But you get a very clear answer from me, Robbie, and that is we do need nuclear power as part of our energy mix. LIAM BARTLETT: Well, you’d also have a big problem with the Greens, wouldn’t you? MATT KEOGH: The bigger issue is just the economics. No-one’s actually standing up to say hey, I want to build a nuclear-fired power station because it actually doesn’t work economically, and no-one will lend them the money. ANDREW HASTIE: But here’s the economics of solar, for example. China has a monopoly on the manufacture of solar panels. MATT KEOGH: And we should fix that. ANDREW HASTIE: And I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s also wind as well. So as we – I think it’s 83% the Labor Government wants to go to by 2030 in renewables. Does that mean we’re going to be completely reliant upon China for our energy whilst we have an abundance of coal, gas, and uranium? This is crazy. We should be moving to nuclear power to secure our energy future and get emissions low. And the Productivity Commission report, the interim report, which was released about three weeks ago, says that Australia is the most exposed and one of the most least resilient countries as we decarbonise the economy. So, we’ve got to look at other options and nuclear is a very, very sound option. MATT KEOGH: Andrew raises a really interesting point because in addition to those resources that we have, we also have all of the different minerals, metals, resources required for battery technology and building solar panels and building wind so we can have the storage and the generation, but after nine years of the Liberal Government they did really nothing to develop that industry properly, to put us in the best position to be able to develop renewable energy, storage technology, very cheap energy as a consequence and now we have to play serious catch up in all of those areas. LIAM BARTLETT: It is a good point, Andrew, that Matt makes. I mean, you know, your team could have done a lot in the last nine years, even to open up the nuclear debate and they did nothing. ANDREW HASTIE: That’s a fair point but this is a new Opposition under a new leadership and we are making nuclear part of the conversation. Here’s the irony, though. As we transition more to renewables, provided by China, the unreliable nature of those renewables makes us more vulnerable and dependent upon China because we won’t be able to build a solar and wind manufacturing sector here without cheap reliable base load power. This is very ironic here. So, Labor gives us a lecture about economics but the reality is staring them right in the face. LIAM BARTLETT: Speaking about who did what and who didn’t do anything. I mean the Pacific, let’s come back to the Pacific for a moment. The Solomon Islands, have either of you noticed the moves by the Solomons only a couple of days ago to say to the US Navy your ships are not welcome here until we come up with new protocols? What’s that about? Is that a bit of a warning sign for either of you? MATT KEOGH: I think it’s troubling. ANDREW HASTIE: It’s very troubling and I take a bipartisan position here. You know, the Albanese Government’s success in the Pacific is Australia’s success. I want them to succeed here. It’s very troubling that our closest security partner and also the US, who fought in the Pacific campaign, gave a lot of American lives to secure the Pacific from the Japanese back in World War II, are denied a port visit in the Solomon Islands? That’s very, very concerning. LIAM BARTLETT: It is, isn’t it, it’s gobsmacking but I’m glad you’re united on that. MATT KEOGH: I don’t think people should be surprised about that, that there should be a unity ticket on national security matters. LIAM BARTLETT: I agree. Clayton’s on the phone. Hello, Clayton. CLAYTON: Good morning, fellas. After nine years in government, Liberals have come out and said that they’d like an increase in what elderly Australians can earn about affecting their pensions, Matt. I reckon they could have brought it in in the past nine years but is that something that’s going to be discussed at the jobs summit? Wonderful, great ideas come out of Opposition. MATT KEOGH: I think you make a very interesting point there, Clayton. But, look, a lot of things, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this comes out in the jobs summit as one of the matters to be discussed, and one of the key things for us in terms of the Jobs and Skills Summit is that we are not taking predetermined views into the jobs summit about what should happen. The whole point is to be gathering views of people across all the different sectors in our economy but also bringing them together to work together about what is in the ultimate best interests for workers, business, growing our nation going forward. That may well be something that is identified as a way of bringing or incentivising some of the skilled labour we need back in but we’ll see what comes out of it. LIAM BARTLETT: Well, the very first session this morning was about growing productivity, so you’d think that’s a fantastic idea. ANDREW HASTIE: That’s right, and to go back to the productivity interim report which I referenced, that identifies Australia as falling behind other developed countries, other developed economies, and I think getting older Australians back into work will be beneficial to our overall productivity but also as the cost of living continues to rise, it will give more purchasing power to pensioners and without affecting their pension. So, I think it’s a great policy. I hope Labor adopts it. LIAM BARTLETT: Clayton, thanks for the question. We’ll come back and take some more calls in just a moment. [COMMERICAL BREAK] LIAM BARTLETT: It’s 9:50, Matt, Andrew. Shane’s on the line. Hello, Shane. Good morning. SHANE: G’day, mate, how are you going? I just want to say that chap from the Liberal Party, what a legend. Russia have had nuclear energy since 1954, 70 years or so, and they’ve only had one accident. I think people have got a pretty negative opinion over nuclear energy. We’re all made of stars, mate, atomic weapons, and atomic atoms, and I think he’s a legend for bringing that up and, you know, everyone’s always so scared to talk about nuclear energy for no real good reason. Good on him. ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks, Shane. I appreciate that. Andrew here. MATT KEOGH: Andrew will be sending you a Liberal Party membership form in the mail shortly, Shane, if you’re not already a member. LIAM BARTLETT: There’s a fan boy moment, a legend. I don’t know, would you go that far, Matt? MATT KEOGH: Look, I have no doubt that Andrew is at least a legend in his own lunchbox. ANDREW HASTIE: Here we go. LIAM BARTLETT: We’ve opened up a can of worms. MATT KEOGH: No, but it’s always good, when people agree with you, for them to tell you because they will always tell you when they disagree. ANDREW HASTIE: People just want cheaper power and they want reliable power. LIAM BARTLETT: Just talk to anyone in France. ANDREW HASTIE: Correct. LIAM BARTLETT: Hello, Kevin. Good morning. KEVIN: Hello. I just want to make it quick. Just two things on the job thing. First one is the Immigration Department need to sort out their migration issues and I reckon they’re trying to keep people here that are already in jobs and that’s proven to be difficult. And, secondly, this jobs summit, they keep looking at jobs across the whole industry, they really need to just focus on one industry at a time and the first one is building. You’ve got to get the houses built here so we need to be getting people that can build houses and dwellings, get them first in and then you can start increasing the thing. You’ve got to stop the mining companies snapping up everyone. We need places for people to live and then we can focus on bringing in people for all the other industries that are short. But if you’ve got nowhere to house them, there’s no point bringing them in. LIAM BARTLETT: Great point. MATT KEOGH: Shane, look, that is a clear area of shortage, absolutely, and I’ve seen it around the country as I’ve been talking to people. You’re absolutely right, and the issue of immigration processing all together, just to even be able to keep people here, let alone bring in additional people where we need that to occur, unfortunately we saw that department absolutely decimated in terms of visa processing resources from the last government and we’ve got to deal with it. LIAM BARTLETT: I think Jim Chalmers made the point, didn’t he, that that’s one of the things on the agenda? MATT KEOGH: Absolutely. This will be an issue that’s dealt with in the summit because getting the balance right about how it works, what’s prioritised, that’s all really important. We’ve got a really unique opportunity right now, as we come out of COVID, we’re reopening borders, to look at what works now as opposed to a system that’s built up somewhat organically over the last 20 or so years and you sort of go does that really fit? We’ve now got an opportunity to make it fit for the conditions we’re dealing with. LIAM BARTLETT: It’s the waiting times and it’s the cost as well, Andrew. ANDREW HASTIE: That’s right. LIAM BARTLETT: As a disincentive I’ve talking about. ANDREW HASTIE: To come to Australia? LIAM BARTLETT: Yeah. ANDREW HASTIE: It is challenging. But we’re also competing with a global market here and we think that after the pandemic people will just want to flood to Australia. Well, we’re up against the UK, the US, New Zealand, there’s countries all around the world who are short on workers. So, we’ve got to really look hard at how we incentivise people to come. LIAM BARTLETT: Matt, on the phone. Hello, Matt. MATT: Good morning, Liam, Matt and Andrew. Andrew, first of all, thank you for your service. My question is about the way that governments approach solar. In particular, you both talked about solar as such a narrow technology and we’re reliant on China for PV technology. But there are other solar solutions in the world that have been proven, and, in fact, proven to be base load power solutions such as solar molten salt and there was to be the first molten salt project in South Australia, but it was defunded by the last government and that’s pretty much, I think, because they moved to the Tesla battery solution. But my question is why do you approach solar with such narrow mind when Karl Kruszelnicki for 20 years has been saying Australia has got to develop a molten salt solar solution? LIAM BARTLETT: He does work for the ABC. What is molten salt? MATT KEOGH: It’s a really interesting use of technology where you take – you’re basically harnessing the heat of the sun to create a molten salt. So, you’re heating the salts. And then because it holds heat so well, it then becomes a heat source to use for generation of electricity. So instead of burning a coal or using nuclear fusion, you use the heat that you’ve generated in the salt core by heating it with the sun and then that heat lasts so well that it will cover you 24 hours, cloud, night-time, everything else. LIAM BARTLETT: I’m impressed that you know all about it, Professor. MATT KEOGH: There’s some good examples of that in Nevada, for example. ANDREW HASTIE: What percentage of the world economies are using this as a form of base load power? So, Matt, I’m open-minded to any source so long as the economics stack up and we can have a debate about the capex costs of nuclear, for example, but I still think long term, as France is demonstrating at the moment, that that nuclear power is the way forward for a number of reasons but if we want to get emissions down, that’s a good one. If we want reliable base load power that’s another. If we want cheaper power, I think that’s a third reason to go with nuclear. LIAM BARTLETT: I think there’s still more to go in the debate, though, generally, isn’t there? ANDREW HASTIE: Absolutely there is and look, WA, we are an enterprising State, we are the resources State and I actually think that if anyone was able to do something like a modular, you know – LIAM BARTLETT: Small modular reactor. ANDREW HASTIE: Small modular reactor it would be WA. MATT KEOGH: Just don’t get sucked into the idea that that provides cheaper energy. LIAM BARTLETT: That’s the point, isn’t it, as well? MATT KEOGH: Yes. ANDREW HASTIE: We’ll have a debate about this, of course. LIAM BARTLETT: We will, we’ll keep talking. I’m sorry we have to chop the conversation at the moment. Great to see both of you here in the studio. MATT KEOGH: It was wonderful to be in person with you. LIAM BARTLETT: It’s refreshing, it’s uplifting, it’s everything that you possibly could dream of. ANDREW HASTIE: It is. I think in two weeks we’re due on in two weeks. LIAM BARTLETT: That’s right. ANDREW HASTIE: Matt will be in Canberra, I’ll be the in United States in Washington DC. LIAM BARTLETT: We’ll rearrange. ANDREW HASTIE: Yeah. LIAM BARTLETT: We’ll rearrange. MATT KEOGH: It will be very late at night or early but I’m sure something. We’ll work it out. LIAM BARTLETT: Get your secretary to call your secretary and then call our cleaner. ANDREW HASTIE: That’s right. LIAM BARTLETT: We’ll do it. Don’t worry. ANDREW HASTIE: The listeners will be waiting. LIAM BARTLETT: Matt Keogh, Andrew Hastie and Behind Party Lines on the morning program. END For Editorial Inquiries Contact: Editor Kym Bergmann at [email protected] For Advertising Inquiries Contact: Director of Sales Graham Joss at [email protected]